 Our sister site HLN reports that a Houston, Texas family claims they were locked inside La Fisherman restaurant after refusing to pay a 17 percent tip on their meal. The restaurant's policy states that the percentage will be automatically added to the tab for parties of five or more. Customer Jasmine Marks told Click2Houston.com that the staff was rude, the drinks weren't refilled and her group received generally poor service. Marks asked if she could speak to a manager to have the auto-gratuity stripped from the bill, but claims the staff locked the doors and told her that her options were to pay the 17 percent or speak with the police outside. Automatic tips, or "autograts" as they're sometimes called, are often used by restaurants to ensure that their staff is fairly compensated for the greater amount of effort it takes to tend to larger parties. The server will sometimes have a larger table as their sole focus for the duration of the meal, and won't be making tips from any other tables. This tip, which is generally clearly stated on a menu, or when making a reservation for a larger group, ensures that a server will be compensated for their time and not miss out on earning money for that shift. Often, the tip is shared with other members of the floor staff, like bussers and bartenders. Having a stated policy in place - usually 18 percent of the pre-tax amount - can eliminate awkwardness and confusion over tipping etiquette, especially if you're dining with business colleagues or people you don't know especially well. On the flip side, patrons sometimes feel they're being tricked into tipping more (especially if the server hasn't pointed out that the gratuity was already included) or discriminated against if the auto-grat isn't always applied. And servers, while they're ensured a base tip, run the risk of earning a lower tip than they would have if diners had been able to decide on the percentage, themselves. Our tip: always check the restaurant's policy when you're dining with a large group, and be sure to pore over the bill at the end. Weigh in on the auto-grat in the comments below, and we'll share our favorites from both sides of the table in an upcoming post. |
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Wow. A restaurant restrains someone against their will over 17% tip? Extortion AND kidnapping. I hope the employees were charged. Even if there was an implied contract, you don't enforce contracts by committing felonies. I hope the employees were arrested! I'd have insisted on it.
Hardly "kidnapping" ; rather "false imprisonment", i.e. restraining somebody in a certain location,
against that somebody's will, provided the somebody was not in the commission of committing a crime.
@liberty I concur. I would not have tolerated that for one minute and the police officers on the scene need to be re-trained if they are unable to recognize that locking customers in a building over the percentage of gratuity is illegal. Even if the party didn't want to pay their bill at all, calling the police is suitable but locking the doors is not. When I worked for corporate-owner restaurants, staff was carefully informed of laws that would apply to us in our work environment.
I am not opposed to an inclusive gratuity for a larger party, however, there should be no reason why a party can't dispute it with management for specific and genuine reasons.
Personally I like to give 20% on average without being anal about the service. Mistakes happen and servers get swamped, but there's no excuse for rudeness.The amount of work involved for one table varies to a great extent depending on the restaurant.Though, the cost of food usually reflects the expectations for the wait staff. If a server is doing a great job and not regularly compensated properly, it's time to find a better place to work.
I don't generally object to an automatic gratuity on parties of 8 or more, but 5? That's just cheesy and I wouldn't go there.
Everyone should wait tables at one point in their life–it is hard work. If you need proof that nice and normal people turn into entitled monsters once seated at a restaurant table, just think about the coworker or sibling you are embarrassed to eat out with because they become so rude and demanding–everyone knows at least a few of these, and if you don't, then it's you. I'm grateful for my experience waiting tables in high school and even more grateful that I've since moved on to better things. As a result, I believe in good tipping. I don't, however, believe in locking people up, and neither does the law. The persons who did this need to be arrested.
Isn't what the staff did a form of kidnapping? Citizens being held against their will? Shouldn't the police have charged the staff who locked the doors with a criminal offense(s)? No mater the economics of the profession, if a citizen locked up another and refused to allow them to leave, that person would be liable under a entire slew of criminal laws.
I hope those diners sue the shorts off the restaurant. If there were a Newton's law for bad restaurant behavior, this would rank high on the list. However the Arby's that served the sandwich with the fingertip in the sandwich last week, and then decided to keep the store open amazingly, certainly ranks!
Ooops.. make that Darwin's law, and "matter"... doh!
However Newton might apply too.. for every action there is...
Seriously, I can't believe this story, nor can I imagine a cop allowing the diners to remain locked inside.
Seriously... over a tip? Especially one for bad service!
I'm fine with the auto 18% but it's not a legally binding contract...if you lock me in the restaurant I'm suing for false imprisonment.
Restaurants worried that large groups won't pay (I specify "pay" and not "tip" because tipping is voluntary; automatic "gratuities" are, let's face it, gratuitous) their servers enough should simply change their policy to one which pays their workers a fair wage, and then allow customers to tip as they see fit. It's curious how no matter how good the food and the service might be at a restaurant, the management is *almost* always full of complete idiots who know nothing about food or business.
From http://www.tip20.com/why-should-you-tip/27:
"Do you legally have to tip? No. Occasionally, you will have a situation where gratuity has been automatically added to your bill. This is usually on larger groups or parties. This gratuity has been added because it is easy for the server to get a tip that is far less than they deserve, because in a group setting it is easy for one or two people to under pay causing the rest of the group to fall short. Again, you do not legally have to pay this gratuity, but if you don’t you should have a talk with the server and/or manager and explain why. Remember, just because a gratuity has been added, it may still be less than a good tip for the server. For example, a gratuity may have been added at 15%. This is a tip for average service. If your server did a great job it is good to add in the difference to make up to 20% or more. Many times the server had to give up several other smaller tables to take your party, so even with automatic gratuity they end up making less on their shift."
Personally, i'd like to see tipping completely voluntary in the absolute sense of that word. Raise the prices to reflect higher wages for wait staff, and base their pay upon performance. Then, if someone gives you extraordinary service (this should be the norm, but of course it's not) give them something additional if you so choose.
As for the "autograt" places, you're cheating your best wait staff where I am concerned. I tip well beyond 18% if the service is good, but when there's an included gratuity, I never give more. (No additional rewards without additional risks.) I understand why places do it, but you can get terrible service in a big party too. Who wants to pay 18% for terrible service.
For places I go all the time, I regularly tip 20%. I will also try to ask for waiter/waitresses I have had before. In one particular place I have left $40 tips on bills around $60. We get great service there and have never had to wait for a table. So, I guess that kind of tipping will get you noticed.
At place I don't go to regularly I am pretty harsh on the tip if the service was not good. I have no problem leaving 5% or less. I do understand them being busy, but I seem to get worse service at places during off hours. Not worth my money or me going back.
I follow the below rules:
My standard is 20%. If you are okay, you get 15%. If you are not good, you get 5% and I leave a note on the receipt. If you are excellent you will get 25% with some of it in cash. In the case of forced gratuity, it depends on the wait staff. If they are good, I pay extra. If they are bad, I pay just the minimum and I call later, speak to the manager, and get a refund.
If I go to a business with forced tips, I tell the wait staff "take good care of us, we will do the same." Rarely have I gotten bad service. In those cases I always leave more. Last time I paid for a huge table bill, the total was somewhere around 180 bucks, and I tipped 40, adding to the 18%.
What I have a problem with is wait staff that thinks they are entitled to tips. No, you have to earn it. Yes, I can afford to tip you well. If you suck, I won't praise you for poor service, and odds are I won't go to your business again. There are enough restaurants to choose from that I don't have to put up with it. You represent your place of business. Act like it and quit having the entitlement mentatily that is so prevalent among people these days.
I agree with you 100%. I worked in the restaurant business for over 25 years and even owned my own. This entitlement mentality is ridiculous and irritating. Tipping waitstaff for bad service ensures that they will continue to do it. Autograts are to ensure that people don't assume others will tip better than someone else when everyone throws in their share of the tab at the end of the meal. Generally, when people pay separately, the server makes MORE in tips, but it is time-consuming to figure checks separately. When serving a large party, the server doesn't wait on many other tables, if any, and therefore depends on that autograt. Bottom line: guests should pay what they think the server is worth and remember that they have bills to pay, too.
First of all as a "Christian" I truly believe that the Bible was written by the Lord himself and has answers to everything we need to know how to live our lives. The Lord himself taught on how we are to give back to HIM 10% of our tithes and offerings out of our "first fruits" of what we earn, and then to Cezar (the government/taxes) what's theirs.
I use this same principle in tipping. Why should I give more to a waiter or waitress (especially if given poor service) more than what I give GOD> Beyond that should be ones personal choice to tip above and beyond the 10% – which I have on many many occasions.
thanks, that was the dumbest thing I've heard so far today.
That should be ILLEGAL. You can't give crappy service and expect people will pay a mandatory tip...and then lock them in the restaurant. Total BS. I'd give them a tip alrght...the tip of my shoe in their arse.
I'm sure any waiter would take 10% of your earnings as a tip. lol. You're comparing apples to airplanes.
Folks, this is why all servers really dislike waiting on church groups. Especially on Sundays.
^^^^AGREE!^^^^
PRAISE HIM!!
Good Christ...
If you're a true Christian then you are not eating out at all! You heather! The wife should be home at the family fire cooking a side of meat over the coals and embers. The children and the flock should be attended to 18 hours a day, and when the husband is aroused, the wife should be available to please him. Then the wife should collect the stones to bring to the temple to stone those gentiles who attend restaurants and sinfully, with vanity, show off their new clothes purchased at KMART. Know thyself and heal thyself you heathen. Back to the cave with you!
I commend you for speaking the truth! True Christians dont eat out! They grind their own wheat and milk their own cows. Restaurants and televisions and computers were not used by Jesus – neither should we! And also, tru Christians dont vote. They do what the Romans tell them what to do! So if priests play with little boys, so should we – and stay out of Restaurants – home of Satan!
“When you have finished laying aside all the tithe of your increase in the third year—the year of tithing—and have given it to the Levite, the stranger, the fatherless, and the widow, so that they may eat within your gates and be filled, then you shall say before the LORD your God: ‘I have removed the holy tithe from my house, and also have given them to the Levite, the stranger, the fatherless, and the widow, according to all Your commandments which You have commanded me; I have not transgressed Your commandments, nor have I forgotten them. Deuteronomy 26:12, 13
so really you only need to tithe every THIRD year...and THAT is to be shared with other people...not given to some church! So your 10% tip formula is a crock! Tipping is NOT tithing...i feel sorry for the people that wait on you! oh and if you want to use the OT ...as a Christion Jesus replace Mosaic law...you cant have iot both ways...even if you use some OT reason for tithes...it is on INCREASE...not on your "gross"!!
If you pray properly about it you will see i am right! :)
If you get pretty good service, you should tip 15% at a full-service restaurant, period. If you're tipping 10% on a regular basis, you're stealing from the waiter or waitress serving you. That's their money, you should give it to them. Otherwise, take your cheap self to McDonalds.
You don't tip over 10% because god tells you? Wow I've seen religion used to justify a lot of things, now it's for someone to be cheap.
Just curious–is this what Jesus would do? And do you limit anything else you pay for to no more than 10% of your income? Your mortgage/rent, your taxes? Or does your bible commitment only concern justifying not paying for service in restaurants?
Really your response reinforces the original point, the self proclaimed religious types are terrible tippers. Stay at home or eat at church if tipping violates your beliefs, don't go somewhere where tips are necessary and claim Jesus exempts you.
you are the reason most of us HATE to work Sundays!!! i am new to Christianity however does it not say something about the worker deserving his wage? We hate waiting on you people and you give Christians a very bad name....you are to give the Lord 10% of your total wages that is somewhat different than 10% of your light bill!!!!! you cheap people leave 10% we tip out 3-4%min so that leaves us with 6-7% please eat at home we do not want to wait on you
LOLOL 10%?! WOW your argument is that god told you give 10%?! haha your excuse for being a cheapass!!
Well, I tip 200-percent! There, I win in the category of World's Most Insane Tippers. Yep, some of you thought you could impress the judges with your claims of 18-, 20-, and 22-percent tips, but you still lose.
Seriously, you VOLUNTARILY pay 20 percent? What a rube. (If you are telling the truth.)
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Also, I hope you super-huge tippers realize that waiters RARELY IF EVER declare all their tips. YOU honestly pay YOUR taxes, but THEY often cheat the system. For that reason, I don't feel bad about leaving a 10-percent tip.
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Persons dining at a $30 a meal restaurant probably are making more than the $15-$20 hr a waitress/waiter is making. Plus consider this, the waitress is also tipping (not all in every case but at least 2): bussers, bartenders, expos, host/hostess, Maitre d' (head waiter) and possibly other waiters/waitresses depending on party size/banquet style dinners. So their $20 tip just got whittled to $15 or even less. So yeah, 10% is a joke. Sorry, former service industry worker speaking, but you want comfort, these people want to live. You want extras/great service you're gonna pay for it, one form or another.
You are a total jack@ss. Not only do servers claim tips, they are usually required by the restaurant to claim based on their sales (usually around 12% of the total sales), not on actually how much they get in tips. Also, servers get fired all the time because they aren't claiming enough per restaurant rules. So unless they server makes very good tips in a night, once they tip out to bartenders and busboys, there is a good chance they are paying taxes on more money than they actually make. But since the Bible forgot that part, you don't believe it to be true.
Yes there are many people who pay 20% or more, especially in good restaurants. Not everyone is as cheap as you are! The point about tax cheats has been rebutted (servers are taxed assuming they are making a certain % in tips–meaning they pay tax on what you aren't tipping, and even on that bible tract some other jerk left in lieu of tip) but really the whole point is irrelevant. You pay for goods and services in all aspects of your life, you have no way of knowing whether others are paying their taxes or not. Do you not pay your mechanic or pay him only 1/2 because he's cheating on his taxes? Nonsense. You pay based on what you buy and the service you get, the recipients tax situation is between them and the IRS and none of your business.
you leave 10% because you are cheap and i hope you are not a regular because servers remember the good and the bad
"No tipping in Canada?"...where did you come up with that? Of course there is tipping in Canada. It is absolutely the same as the USA. Large groups, advertised auto gratuities. There are freeloaders and cheapies everywhere.
As a lifetime resident of WI and/or MN and a former service industry employee, I've had quite a bit of contact with our Neighbors to the North. It's been explained to me by them (and almost every single employer) that tipping wasn't the norm for Canada. That being sad, tipping does exist, but it isn't always understood to what extent or whom to tip. About 50% of the Canadians tipped me, I would guess. My girlfriend, who has been in the industry almost 15 years now, has said the same of MANY cultures, not just Canadians. She has more experience than I do, as she worked at the international airport. She says about 75% of the time Canadians don't tip, but she's had many the same discussion with customers too. In my opinion, they don't tip as often or as much as Americans.
What Canadians have you been talking to? Tipping in Canada is no different than the states. 20% is the norm for most better establishments but, like the states, there are deadbeats who will forgo the tip on even great service. Autograts are as prevalent in Canada as anywhere else. I currently live in Tokyo and an tell you that this is one country where tips are not encouraged or required (basically, nobody tips wait staff, taxis, bell hops, etc.) yet many of the larger hotels (Grand Hyatt) have an autograt in their restaurants.
I don't mind an autograt, but, if the service is poor, the establishment should negate the autograt. I've worked as a busboy before and waitresses shared their tips with us. I naturally wanted the waitresses to get better tips. My contribution was to do my job better. It worked and was appreciated.
I understand both sides of this argument, and do know that the wait staff does work for the tips. Most people who are not aware that the going rate now for tipping at restaurants is 20% have never been waiters or waitresses and don't realize that the restaurants are exempt from paying their wait staff minimum wage (or anything at all) to wait their tables.
However, the auto-tipping is NOT fairly administered in every case, at all restaurants. It is for this reason that I voted "other" in the poll.
I normally tip 20% at all restaurants where I go. And, I almost always get very good service wherever I go. I am not very hard to satisfy, and will generally signal the wait staff if I need anythng at any point, so waiting for someone to refill my coffee, soft drinks, etc., is not generally a problem for me.
HOWEVER, I went to a Howard Johnson (this is a long time ago when Hojo's was still in existence in these parts) restaurant one time with a bunch of people who had just attended a joint meeting. We were all casually acquainted and just decided to go at the same time. It was the first time I had ever joined that group there. I had my kids with me. The kids had desert while I had a cup of coffee which was refilled. Other people in the group had various things; some had entire meals.
As the evening wore on, people began to finish and leave for home while others remained. Some at neighboring tables had asked for their own separate tickets, but many of us at the one larger table were all on the same ticket. People who were leaving, put the money for their own order in a pile in the middle of the table with, I presumed, their tip. Different people have different ideas of what is a proper tip. Some older people still think it appropriate to tip $2.00 for an entire meal and others still tip about 10% thinking that is the right amount. Few people tip the true current standard of 20% that I adhere to and which I taught my kids to always adhere to also.
My kids and I were the last to leave ... I think I was setup that way by at least a few who left earlier. I was the newbie on the scene, and I suppose that was the deal with that group.
Well, needless to say, the server brought our ticket. I picked up the pile of money which now contained my money also for the little we ordered and the 20% tip I put into the pot with it. I counted it out, and I was definitely STUCK with a bill that was for more than was left and definitely more than I had on me at the time. The server had added in the 18% at that place for the "big group tip" but had NOT said a word about it. If she had said anything about that, she KNEW that we would ALL ask for separate tickets except the ones who were trying to get a free meal. And, there were apparently more than a few who either did not put in any tip at all or at least one or two who didn't pay at all for their large meals.
The tip came to multiple times the cost of my order. I started crying when she said to me that I had no choice and would be arrested if I did not pay. And, THEN, I became angry with her.
I did pay via credit card, but not without a lot of angst because since that group came there every single week, she KNEW that the newbie would get stuck and she never said a word.
After that, if I joined in with ANYONE at ANY restaurant after ANY meeting, and someone else wasn't paying my way or it wasn't prearranged that I was paying their way, I asked for a separate ticket for my children and I. After a while of going to that same restaurant, I noticed that more times than not, the freeloaders did NOT come BECAUSE nearly everyone started asking for separate tickets. With separate tickets, there would be no automatic tip added in, generally, and even if they had added it into each singular ticket because we happened to be sitting at the same table with our separate tickets, I would NEVER AGAIN have to worry about anyone else's tip and I would be getting off 2% less on the tip (I NEVER pay more if they add in an automatic tip.)
Since it was a family in this article, I would have simply paid the tip and even possibly the extra 2% if I received really good service. It's a tough crowd if my family were to ever get together at a restaurant and no server should be subjected to that and not tipped well.
But, if I ever got "stuck" again over something like what happened to ME, I would wait for the police and let them arrest me before I would pay all that money for everyone else who I barely knew just because some waitress saw an opportunity in the form of a newbie to her regular group. That was just plain rude of that server. Plus, I know that when it got to court, there is no way any judge would force a person to pay something that was neither advertised nor told to the customer which would be easy to prove via simple logic of separate tickets to avoid auto-tip.
BTW, five at one table is NOT a large group. If it were, my parents never would have been able to take our family out to eat - ever... we were a family of seven. Most families at the time I was growing up were families of at least five with some being families of much more - 12 kids and two parents seemed popular in the families of some friends.
The places where I have seen the auto-tip didn't add it in until the number got much higher than five and I don't believe any but maybe the fanciest places ever may have done that sort of thing when I was a child. They would have lost a lot of business back then doing that.
I live in Delaware, but In some restaurants in NYC, the wait staff PAYS the restaurant for the privilege of serving and in those, I would definitely pay the top percentage - but they wouldn't like me very much because I don't drink any liquor at all and rarely order desert. I do tend to get an appetizer, though (one for the WHOLE table to share.) I'm a cheap date (for husband now!)
So, the restaurant which charged that auto-tip on a table of five was really carrying it a bit far unless they were one of the fanciest restaurants in that town and their servers paid for the privilege of serving there.
In Canada, wait staff is paid a good salary (at least minimum wage) and there is no tipping at all, so one should see how bad it can get for wait staff in the states that border Canada or receive a lot of travelers from Canada. Those business men, etc., are not used to tipping at all and don't tend to "remember" to tip when they are in the states for lunch or dinner.
I've lived in Canada my whole life and I've always understood that tipping is part of eating out. I'm not sure why you think that Canadians don't tip. They do, and handsomely.
I'm sorry but Canadians are the WORST tippers ever! They rave about the service they are receiving and once they get the bill, pay the exact amount and walk out.
I don't know where you're getting your information that the "going rate" for tips is now 20%. I've read a fair number of guides on tipping for many countries, and in the United States, the baseline for a tip is still 15%. Anyone is of course entitled to tip more than that, or even less (though that is almost universally considered rude). Baseline tips vary by country, and they even vary within countries (e.g., you're generally expected to tip more at a swanky upscale restaurant in a city than a country restaurant in the boonies), but for Americans, 15% has long been the norm.
This tip inflation (i.e., claiming that 20% or more is the "new normal" for tipping) is nonsense, and usually an idea pushed or promoted by servers themselves. Since tipping is usually a percentage of the bill, a higher bill means a greater tip, so there should be no reason to increase the percentage unless the restaurant owners are keeping a greater percentage for themselves, or if the owners are paying more for food and supplies (a miniscule part of food service) and keeping the menu prices the same. I'm just not convinced that servers are under greater economic pressure than the rest of us that they'd need to make a bigger percentage of the bill.
Some people will always be stingy, but the solution IMHO is to get more customers to tip the real customary amount (15%) by providing better service, not inventing a new standard for tipping.
You were screwed by the people you ate with, not by the server. You took your kids for dessert and coffee, and a large group of people left you holding the check for not only the tip, but their dinners? You need to revisit how you determine who your friends are. There's no reason why the server should *also* be bilked out the money she worked hard for, nor do I see how she could have possibly known (and withheld from you) that you were being "set up" as the "newbie." There's a lot of misdirected rage here.
I understand both sides of this argument, but it is NOT fairly administered at all restaurants. It is for this reason that I voted "other" in the poll.
I normally tip 20% at all restaurants where I go. And, I almost always get very good service wherever I go. I am not very hard to satisfy, and will generally signal the wait staff if I need anythng at any point, so waiting for someone to refill my coffee, soft drinks, etc., is not generally a problem for me.
HOWEVER, I went to a Howard Johnson (this is a long time ago when Hojo's was still in existence in these parts) restaurant one time with a bunch of people who had just attended a joint meeting. We were all casually acquainted and just decided to go at the same time. It was the first time I had ever joined that group there. I had my kids with me. The kids had desert while I had a cup of coffee which was refilled. Other people in the group had various things; some had entire meals.
As the evening wore on, people began to finish and leave for home while others remained. Some at neighboring tables had asked for their own separate tickets, but many of us at the one larger table were all on the same ticket. People who were leaving, put the money for their own order in a pile in the middle of the table with, I presumed, their tip. Different people have different ideas of what is a proper tip. Some older people still think it appropriate to tip $2.00 for an entire meal and others still tip about 10% thinking that is the right amount. Few people tip the true current standard of 20% that I adhere to and which I taught my kids to always adhere to also.
My kids and I were the last to leave ... I think I was setup that way by at least a few who left earlier. I was the newbie on the scene, and I suppose that was the deal with that group.
Well, needless to say, the server brought our ticket. I picked up the pile of money which now contained my money also for the little we ordered and the 20% tip I put into the pot with it. I counted it out, and I was definitely STUCK with a bill that was for more than was left and definitely more than I had on me at the time. The server had added in the 18% at that place for the "big group tip" but had NOT said a word about it. If she had said anything about that, she KNEW that we would ALL ask for separate tickets except the ones who were trying to get a free meal. And, there were apparently more than a few who either did not put in any tip at all or at least one or two who didn't pay at all for their large meals.
The tip came to multiple times the cost of my order. I started crying when she said to me that I had no choice and would be arrested if I did not pay. And, THEN, I became angry with her.
I did pay via credit card, but not without a lot of angst because since that group came there every single week, she KNEW that the newbie would get stuck and she never said a word.
After that, if I joined in with ANYONE at ANY restaurant after ANY meeting, and someone else wasn't paying my way or it wasn't prearranged that I was paying their way, I asked for a separate ticket for my children and I. After a while of going to that same restaurant, I noticed that more times than not, the freeloaders did NOT come BECAUSE nearly everyone started asking for separate tickets. With separate tickets, there would be no automatic tip added in, generally, and even if they had added it into each singular ticket because we happened to be sitting at the same table with our separate tickets, I would NEVER AGAIN have to worry about anyone else's tip and I would be getting off 2% less on the tip (I NEVER pay more if they add in an automatic tip.)
Since it was a family in this article, I would have simply paid the tip and even possibly the extra 2% if I received really good service. It's a tough crowd if my family were to ever get together at a restaurant and no server should be subjected to that and not tipped well.
But, if I ever got "stuck" again over something like what happened to ME, I would wait for the police and let them arrest me before I would pay all that money for everyone else who I barely knew just because some waitress saw an opportunity in the form of a newbie to her regular group. That was just plain rude of that server. Plus, I know that when it got to court, there is no way any judge would force a person to pay something that was neither advertised nor told to the customer which would be easy to prove via simple logic of separate tickets to avoid auto-tip.
BTW, five at one table is NOT a large group. If it were, my parents never would have been able to take our family out to eat - ever... we were a family of seven. Most families at the time I was growing up were families of at least five with some being families of much more - 12 kids and two parents seemed popular in the families of some friends.
The places where I have seen the auto-tip didn't add it in until the number got much higher than five and I don't believe any but maybe the fanciest places ever may have done that sort of thing when I was a child. They would have lost a lot of business back then doing that.
I live in Delaware, but In some restaurants in NYC, the wait staff PAYS the restaurant for the privilege of serving and in those, I would definitely pay the top percentage - but they wouldn't like me very much because I don't drink any liquor at all and rarely order desert. I do tend to get an appetizer, though (one for the WHOLE table to share.) I'm a cheap date (for husband now!)
So, the restaurant which charged that auto-tip on a table of five was really carrying it a bit far unless they were one of the fanciest restaurants in that town and their servers paid for the privilege of serving there.
In Canada, wait staff is paid a good salary (at least minimum wage) and there is no tipping at all, so one should see how bad it can get for wait staff in the states that border Canada or receive a lot of travelers from Canada. Those business men, etc., are not used to tipping at all and don't tend to "remember" to tip when they are in the states for lunch or dinner.
Did you say something?
I would have kicked the down the f*cking door. Or found a chair to throw, a window, and a tablecloth and gotten out. No way I would let anybody imprison my family.
I have read quite a few of these posts and I too have my own opinion. First of all, in my 15+ years in the restaurant business, from fine dining to casual, I have never seen somebody detained for not paying the gratuity. This restaurant will not be in business very long. It is important to know that a restaurant relies upon the guests; if there are no guests, there is no restaurant. With this in mind, the guest is always #1. I have certainly had my moments of anger over a stiff (no tip) and have been belittled by careless people over the years, but it is a part of the business. I treat every guest the way I would want to be treated, which is professional and as equals. I have seen the "double dipping" scam, and I am horrified that it is allowed by managers. If I were the manager, I would write-up the employee or even fire them. It is ridiculous to trick a guest. I am surprised more restaurants don't just put a big stamp with the gratuity on the check itself. That would eliminate the trickery. Also, if my service was not to your liking, by all means I won't expect a gratuity. That said, times change. Tips need to go up by percentage to allow for inflation and the tip-out to other employees. 15% is ridiculous for great service. 20% to 25% is what I expect, if I am able to give you my utmost attention, which can be difficult based on the way I receive my tables. Just as I would for any guest in my house, I will let my guests know if my manager just gave me 5 tables back to back, and that I may be a bit rushed. Usually, my guests understand. Communication is the key. Although there are stinky bad apples out there, I am smart enough to know that life will go on, and my next table might be the best ever :) Stop stressing out!! Keep it positive ya'll :)
I pay up to 50% depending where I go, but one thing I don't like is if the wait staff didn't provide a good service and then something like this happens. Tipping also known as a gratuity is a voluntary act of additional payment made for services rendered. I am aware that only in America there is Mandatory Tipping which is an Oxymoron. One time I only had cash and whatever I had left after a meal was nickels and dimes, I felt bad but the waitress ran out telling me I forgot to tip...this is for a $15 meal for two.
What restaurants should do is tack on 15% to 20% mandatory tip to the menu, so people don't even need to think about it... except to provide additional tip if there was excellent service.
btw what I don't understand the concept of calculating tip post taxes.. i do it anyways because i'm lazy and they usually deserve more than 15%
Why should the tipping % increase because of inflation ? Isn't that doupple dipping as well ??
Since the Price of the meals increase with inflation so will the actual tipping amount. Inflation is just an excuse to try to set a new and higher standard.
1. Increase the prices on the menu by 18% and pay the employees better.
2. I should not be expected to tip you a certain amount because of the IRS.
3. I should be able to tip a flat rate. Why should I pay more for a $50 meal than a $25 meal when you gave me the same level of service. To tip based on the price of the meal instead of the level of service makes no sense.
do you understand the server must tip 3-4% min on the price of the meal so when you leave the same for a 25 meal as a 50 meal you (which is probably 10% on a good night) the server must pay 3-4% on the 50 no matter what you leave. why don't you people do us a favor and eat fast food
Bunch of pathetic cheapskates, if you can't afford to tip wtf you doing out at a restaurant?? Go to McDonalds you BUMS!!!
You wouldn't have a job if all of us cheap skates go to McDonald's instead, now would you?. Does you boss know about your attitude?
yes we would there are plenty of people who tip well and we could give them the service they deserve all the time if we did not have to deal with cheap people like you!!!! and yes, i love my manager and she has been a server and feels the same way though she could never say that
The REAL solution to all this is to pay waiters and waitresses a LIVING WAGE.
Good service should not require an extra incentive. When I visit the grocery store or hardware store, I don't tip the employees, and I still expect good service.
Of course, that also means that all those people in the restaurant industry will have to pay taxes on all that money that have never claimed as income. In big cities, where some waiters can make thousands in unreported income.
Basically, waiters and waitress have a sweet deal with respect to unreported income. They would do well to just shut up about people who failed to leave a huge tip.
Clearly, you have never waited tables before. Did you ever think that we have to tip out other employees? We tip out Bartenders, Host/Hostess, and Bus boys. If we are stiffed or given a low tip we actually pay to wait on tables. We don't have it "sweet" that we have unreported income. It is very difficult to get a auto loan or a mortgage. For your information the "sweet" deal is only hundreds not thousands of dollars as most employers claim ten to fifteen percent of your sales as income. Serving is hard work and very demanding it often requires long hours on your feet with little break and down time. I wish you could step in someone's shoes for one week and I bet you would not last. Unless, you have working in the industry you have no room to comment.
i've have come across many people who earn tip for a living and they usually can't get any banks to finance them due to no proof of actual income, just their base pay.... that's the real down side... plus those people in that industry usually don't have a good established credit.
Wow. This whole chain of posts is a wonderful picture of the American Pie. We have people who work in the industry explaining a system they work under. We self proclaimed economists and politicians blaming one party for the way an industry operates (ironically the 'party' that is known for industry enforcement blames the 'party' known for less govt interaction for creating and enforcing such a "terrible" system according to these posts) and we have a section of our population that believe they are above the poor lowly trash that brings them their food, water and clearly could never have received or be working towards a college degree (despite our stereotype of wait staffs being students).
Why has our system never been changed? The tipping system allows someone working in the food service industry to make $30/hr. That's why. To the litany of nurses posting on here (who apparently have nothing better to do?) your complaint seems valid – they make more than you in a position you feel requires less skill (maybe it does, maybe it doesn't – Im no nurse, but Ive been an EMT). The difference is that yes, in the 1 hour you ate there that person made $30/hr but the two hours before you arrived they made maybe $4/hr. While I currently do not work in the industry both of my room mates do – and while the one brings home $100 a day, she works 9 hour shifts. That means really she makes $11.11/hr – at a job that she didnt get to sit down and read CNN.com at ~ mind you working 6 days a week and going to college full time and living with 2 other people in a small apartment so that maybe down the road she can get a job like yours. Having said that, yes, she still makes more money than my other room mate, who works in the kitchen as the second highest paid employee where he works.
Reality is simple. Yes, the industry is hard. Yes, gratuity pays salary which often surpasses basic wage but its no guarantee. Yes some serving staff are high school drop outs, others have masters degrees. I have never been an accountant, but woe is I should I say that we should pay CPAs less because any 5th grader can do math. In the 2 years I worked at a major hospital my conclusion was doctors worked less than nurses – who while having much of the same education and knowledge – applied it even less. Serving people is a skill, as much as driving a bus, delivering medications, filling our HR forms, and teaching your children is.
Like I said before – the system allows someone to occasionally make $30/hr – it also keeps your costs down and your favorite food establishment open. Restaurants are the worst start up, ask any bank. They make very little money (at first if ever). If you don't believe me look at why most of the big chains are owned by the same few companies. They become profitable when you have many of them. Only one person caught on that allowing a $2/hr wage allows restaurants to keep 10 servers an hour on the floor at the cost of 2 at minimum wage. Imagine how pissed off you would be if you went to Chillies and there were only 3 servers, no bussers or hosts. If you thought 30 minutes for food was bad just wait. The system exists because its the best model – the staff has a chance to make good money, the company keeps low overhead and the customer can be an entitled snob. Proof lies in other countries – where everyone says its nice not to tip but their service is terrible.
Should everyone receive a working wage – yes. Will that ever happen – no. The Soviets attempted that, it didn't work. It doesn't even work like that in China. What makes our country great is the possibility of a better offer. Reality (especially in today's economy) is that often those working at a restaurant work there because they got hired after applying to hundreds of other jobs. My room mate hates coming home smelling like BBQ, but rent is due. Serving tables offers the chance to make great money, often it just evens out with the salary of other like positions at best buy, starbucks or walmart. I sold insurance once, some agents make 6 figures, others eek out a living.
Get over yourselves. Our society believes you should tip your servers. Just pay it. You are willing to pay $14 for a ticket to see Batman (which is the same movie remade for a third time) but you wont drop a few extra dollars for someone who wait on you? If you got popcorn ... yea.
Best post on this!! Amen brother!!
American Veteran you said doctors work less than nurses and get paid more and have "same education and knowledge"- you are ignorant to the education and training doctors go through to call themselves "doctors"- yes , we, nurses, work very hard but our depth of knowledge and training does not compare to a doctors. The tips should be optional and the amount a personal choice based of level of service provided.
Disclaimer: If you don't want to read my rant, please skip to the last paragraph. You've been warned.
I have done 12 years of university-level and graduate studies, have over $120 000 in debt (thanks, school!) and work as a medical resident. This means I have worked 36 (yes, THIRTY-SIX) hour shifts STRAIGHT and my on-call stipend (when I'm confined to the hospital, can't leave, even to get food (not even coffee!), and don't sleep) ends up to LESS THAN MINIMUM WAGE. Most times I don't even get a thank you. Thank you, for taking the extra time to explain our grandmother's next-day surgery plans to us in the middle of the night because we just arrived from the airport, or get her a warm blanket, or to call different pharmacies to track down her medication list because she can't remember....and for somehow still managing a smile.
I get paid less than minimum wage to save your loved one's life – maybe even your life. Most of the time I don't even get a thank you, let alone a tip. I would work an extra job if I could – but I don't have time for a relationship, exercise, or often a haircut. So I guess applying as a server is out of the question. Although I'm sure I would be great at multi-tasking and keeping my composure with tough customers (lots of experience with that one – gunshot wounds, violent patients, death threats...)
I am not a cheapskate. I also provide for my father, who is ill, and help out my sister, who is at college. Sometimes I want to eat out to remind myself that that is what regular folks do. Sure, I may have the pasta instead of the lobster (sorry for the smaller tip) but I'm pretty sure eating at McDonalds isn't good for me. Also, I'm pretty sure there must be a law somewhere about sleep-cooking (much like sleep-walking, only with fire.)
I believe it should be illegal to pay servers (and busboys and waitstaff and hosts/hostesses) less than minimum wage. If they have to declare and pay tax on 12% of their sales- then actually make that their wage. And price your food accordingly. This would protect servers from getting short-changed. Maybe then I would feel like my tips are actually recognizing someone for good service, rather than just paying their wage. Would I still eat out? You betcha, especially if the alternative is me burning the house down :) Maybe one day, I will be able to actually get a job (now where are all those golden doctor jobs just waiting to be plucked from the air like ripe peaches?!?!) that allows me to pay off my student debt, set up a retirement account/health benefits/disability insurance (isn't it great to be a small-business owner?!) and maybe, just maybe, go on a date and have lobster once in a while?
@A.V.: very well said. i do believe in fair compensation for fair service. that is how they make their living. bad service lower tip, good to great service higher tip......however i don't like the hover waiters, they just annoy me.
So true! I like to eat out. I also tip at 20%. These people work their butts off, and they're on their feet all day long. I think everyone should be a server in a restaurant to understand what it's really like. (I was). You'll be a lot more appreciative. And sure, sometimes you have bad service, but that's when you talk to the restaurant manager, if it is not resolved, you don't leave a tip. I lived in Europe, where tipping is automatically included in the bill, and the service there is a lot worse than here.
That is one of the best posts I have ever read, not just for this article but in my *lifetime.* Thank you for your cogent, thoughtful and non-emotional analysis.
I know what restaurant I WONT be going to!
If I was an ambulance chasing lawyer, I would jump on this with a large spoon and start digging in. This entire group can file individual lawsuits against this corporation for unlawful imprisonment. Betcha they settle out of court!
It was unlawful imprisonment, and I'll bet that after this story has time to circulate, some lawyer will contact the family.
I hate those automatic gratuities, because I've often found the service to be very inadequate. I mean, if they already know they are getting a huge tip, why bother to break a sweat going the extra mile?
We had a pizza restaurant try to stick us with an 18-percent "gratuity." I pointed out to the waitress that it's not stated on the menu. She said, "Well, it's sort of an 'industry standard' to charge that."
I asked, "So, it you want to arbitrarily raise the prices mid-meal, is that o.k. too?"
She said, "Huh?"
I told her, "If it's not stated on the menu, you can't charge it."
She removed the extra tips.
One more thing. She also failed to mention the 18-percent gratuity even after my in-laws and others at the table had CLEARLY left around $20 in tips in plain sight of the waitress. When everyone realized that she was trying to double-dip, we ALL took our tips up. In the end, the waitress got around $4 (My mother-in-law thought she was nearly brain-dead and took pity on her.)
Wow, way to go on CNN and wave a banner that says "I'm gross white trash."
You go to a 'pizza place' and argue semantics with a waittress that is paid less than minimum wage because it isn't 'printed on the menu' that when you eat out you leave your server a tip. If you can't afford to leave a generous tip (Obviously you cannot) then you cannot afford to eat out. Stay at home and eat sh*t casserole you trash.
Joshua, you obviously are not well educated. So let me give it a try.
TIP: To Insure Prompt service
The whole purpose of the TIP concept was to help ensure the service was quick, complete, and provided a *good seat*. There is *NO* requirement to pay a tip, it is a GRATUITY. In other words, a GIFT to a person because their service PLEASED you.
There are times I have left 1 CENT as a tip. This showed the TIP was not overlooked, but INTENDED to state my opinion of their effort. This has nothing to do with "can I afford" to pay the tip. It's a matter of if they DESERVE the tip. I don't care if it's a 5-star restaurant or a slop house. If my water glass stays empty, if my meal is delivered cold, if they attitude of the server SUX, then I don't give a large TIP. Remember, it's To Insure Prompt service.
TIP does NOT (for the last time) mean "To Insure Prompt Service." It doesn't even make sense because to insure something, you'd have to pay it up front and get your money back if the service was bad. The word you're looking for is "ensure" and that wouldn't work (TEP).
However, you are right about the purpose of a tip. It's a gratuity. A gift. It's not required. Legally, you do not have to pay a tip to anyone ever. It's expected in the industry, and if you want to eat at a restaurant more than once and have good service and no spit in your food you should pay it, but legally gratuity is your choice.
From the post, it sounds like they went to the pizza place expecting to tip their server. What they didn't expect because it wasn't stated was that it was automatically added to their bill for them. They protested and the waitress removed the automatic tip. At that point, they should have just left what they thought was fair for the service for the meal.
For 17% on one check they just lost thousands in potential business. NOT BRIGHT.
True. Soooooooo foolish.
My guess is that whoever locked them in is now out looking for another job.
There's a simple solution to the issue of wages in the food service industry. Don't take the job, and don't let others accept it if the pay is not worth working for. A restaurant that cannot or will not pay servers a wage sufficient to live on does not deserve to operate. No wonder people will choose welfare first.
Where I live, minimum wage, regardless of the sector, is over $10 an hour; so anything above 15% would seem almost excessive. But tips can and do often exceed that amount. There's no expectation either way, however, there will always be an incentive to earn more money. Restaurants following or embracing wage laws that allow a lowered base rate for "tipped" employees actually hurt the food service industry by attracting less-qualified employees, discouraging employee development and training, undermining the relationship between customer and server, and quite possibly fraudulently collecting additional revenue through the autotip system (we don't know how much the server is getting from that, though I suspect it's rather less than the full amount.)
If I bring a larger party to a restaurant, I'm bringing a large number of voices to the review pool as well as greater revenue. Restaurants do _not_ want five (or more) people complaining about poor service from a single incident. If a larger party cannot be accommodated by a restaurant, then I'd prefer to be advised of that beforehand rather than to be served grudgingly and then slapped with a previously-unadvertised service charge disguised as an automatic tip. One will keep that restaurant an open option for me if I should later choose to eat out with a smaller party; the other, while getting at least part of my money for that meal (depending on my tolerance of what I've experienced), will end forever my and my friends' business relationship with that establishment, and likely kill that business.
Heres an Idea –
DONT give this place a DIME- obviously they are RUDE, or the people would not have been offended.
email this place DIRECTLY: http://www.la-fisherman.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=65&Itemid=152
I hope their doors close and they are REQUIRED to change their selfserving attitudes- tip THAT!
By forcing the patrons to pay the tip by putting it on the bill restaurants are giving the patrons no way to show displeasure at the service and no incentive for the staff to give good service. I ran into that recently with horrible service. The restaurant did win in a way because I just paid the bill. I will never return to that restaurant and tell everyone I can about my bad experience and advise them never to eat there.
I also will never go to restaurants that force me to use valet parking. It is not a convenience for me if you force me to have the immature reckless brat that you hired driving my car. I will NEVER subject my car to that type of abuse.
This is off-topic, but I'll bite. The vast majority of the time, valet parking is required because there is an extremely limited amount of parking space, so cars have to be double (or triple) parked in order for them to fit. The "immature reckless brats" serving as valets have driven more cars than you would in a dozen lifetimes, including luxury sportscars, monster trucks, and Hummers. They are parking the car for you because (a) they will do a better job than you, (b) they will keep other inexperienced drivers from similarly crashing into your car, and (c) you won't have to get up 100 times during the meal to move your car. Now let's argue about what they should be tipped!!
I worked as a server full time for a number of years. Early on, it was easy to be disappointed at receiving a less than expected tip for perfect service (what I expected as a tip depended on what type of restaurant I was working in: casual, %15 – fine dining, %20) until I realized that even if I was completely stiffed on a $400 check, the amount that that affected my yearly income was negligible, and wasn't worth my anger. I'm surprised most patrons can't come to the same conclusion. You hurt a business more by denying them your repeat business – and what percentage of your yearly income are you haggling about? (don't forget to include the value of your untaxed benefits). I'm not saying you don't have a case for being upset about a gratuity your perceive to be unearned, but seriously, save yourself the anger and hassle, pay it and never go back, and tell your friends not to go there.
Although I don't object to the mandatory tip on large parties, the customer needs to be warned at the time of booking, not surprised at the end of the meal. I bet in this particular instant, there will be people losing their jobs, both servers and management because this story is business killer for this one establishment.
oops I meant 'instance'
I'd love to know where you got 15% from casual dining. I was getting less than 10%, and we were taxed for 15% no matter what we made. People act like it's no big deal if they don't leave tip, but it's a HUGE deal. Not only are you making $2.13 an hour for the time you spent waiting on them, you actually end up owing money because you're taxed even if they didn't tip you at all. I think there are some places that rely on people to report tips, but just as many or more do automatic taxing based on how much food you served. I had a party of 10 or 12 once tip me exactly $1. And yes, I gave them good service and was devoted to only their table the entire time they were there. That hard work actually cost me money. Auto-tipping should happen no matter what the size of the party. Some people are just sickos.
What are you saying, that you actually have to pay taxes on your earned income? Welcome to the real world, we all have to. How can you say that you lost money because of a dollar tip? You earn an hourly wage just like the rest of us. Why do food servers deserve tips anymore than the rest of society that work in customer service? I think it's absurd that a tip is expected in any line of work, it's called a gratuity and should be given as an expression of appreciation, not an automatic given. You may think you worked hard for those customers but did they think the same thing? I'm sure there are customers who don't want to tip and that's why it shouldn't be an expected part of your job, and this is to everyone not just you.
No, genius, they were saying that many restaurants will automatically report a 15% tip income based on your sales. Meaning that if you had a table with a $100 check, the government is told that you received $15 as income. If that table stiffs the server, the server is being taxed on income they did not receive. I waited tables for years and I never looked at an automatic gratuity as an excuse to give bad service. I felt that most customers were nice, normal people, but there certainly were some awful, abusive, hostile people, and even in the best circumstances, waiting tables and providing a good experience for your customers is very demanding work. I don't understand this attitude people seem to have that servers are evil, lazy, and rolling in unreported millions....I reported all of my tips. And yes, there were times that I did pay to go to work after getting shafted by tables.
TJROX??? nah you dont rock!! ...you have no idea what you are spewing...welcome to the real world!! these people are paid $2.15-$5.00/hour depending...and you think they are rolling in the dough when they get a $1.00 tip...like the other poster says... they get taxed by the IRS on an "estimated tip"...they "estimate" you are going to average 15% and they will tax you that amount...and ALL charged tips go towards that 15% most of the time what the server is paid(salary) gets taken in TAXES!!...MAYBE YOU PEA BRAIN CAN REFLECT ON THAT BIT OF TRUE INFO!!
I think there are good reasons for adding an automatic tip for waiting on a very large party, but if the service is poor, then the host should talk to the manager, and the manager should reduce the amount (and offer an apology) if the complaint seems justified.
Adding a required payment for service is not a tip, it is not a gratuity, it's a service charge.
If I were running a restaurant and a patron complained after a meal that they got bad service and didn't want to pay for the service I'd make sure they didn't pay and I'd offer them free food or a bottle of wine or even a whole meal to make up for it. Happy customers are worth more than that tip would have been. How much could it be?
I checked the place's Yelp reviews and the service gets knocked quite a bit.
Look at the horrible publicity the place has gotten since this incident. Sounds like bad management to me.
I pretty much run from one extreme to the next in regards to tipping. If I have superior service, which I consider to be a pleasant, professional, knowledgeable, courteous, and attentive server, I will leave a forty to fifty percent gratuity. If I have mediocre service (pleasant, but perhaps not knowledgeable, experienced, or as attentive as they should be), I will leave twenty to twenty five percent gratuity. If I have a server who is just plain bad (incompetent, inattentive, unprofessional), I usually leave ten to fifteen percent. For a rude server, I will leave five percent. The server often complements the meal and really can make or break the dining experience. It is incumbent on the server to provide superior service and always be on their game, but it is equally incumbent on the patron or customer to recognize superior service and to compensate accordingly. I have lost respect for family friends who treat service staff with disdain, especially superior service personnel. I will not tolerate disrespect to those superior service persons.
As my name states, I am a well off individual, who often pays 50% or more in tips to those in the service industry who work hard and show me respect during my meal.
That being said, I also should have the right (which I have exercised on multiple occasions) to go below the 15% – sometimes leaving nothing for someone who didn't deserve it.
If that were me, I would have called the police on those detaining me. I work hard for my money, and I believe that those in the service industry should as well.
Isn't that called "false imprisonment"? Isn't that a criminal offense? Not only would I press criminal charges against this establishment, but I would also seek punitive damages as well.
According to Wikipedia:
The following are false imprisonment scenarios.
The taking hostage of a bank's customers and employees by bank robbers.
The detention of a customer by a business owner (e.g., hotel operator, apartment owner, credit card company) for the failure to pay a bill.
While I am impressed with your ability to research Wiki-peeeeeeeeeeedia, Nancy, I find the lack of euphemisms somewhat.....lacking. If my son weren't dressed in a sailor's outfit, I'd give it to you. NAY! I would PRESENT it to you, with all the rainbows and skittles to boot! Whaddya say sport? Just give me a 'Honk, Honk' like when we were kids on the road trip we all hated as kids. Go on. I'll wait.
Wwwwwhat? Prime example of a lot of words which say nothing at all.
You must be on the same drugs Nancy Polosi uses.
I smell Truth.
I don't mind paying a gratuity for larger parties. As noted above: "The server will sometimes have a larger table as their sole focus for the duration of the meal, and won't be making tips from any other tables." A problem presents itself in one of these (or more scenarios): 1) Management assigns the server to additional tables as well (some across the restaurant), deterring PROMPT service and in a few cases causing wrong/incomplete orders to the table paying the AUTO gratuity. 2) Service is NOT stellar, this could be caused by many different factors, however if a person is getting paid "extra" automatically well then where is the incentive to impress... I am by NO means generalizing that all servers are "lazy" when working large parties. I've had the pleasure of being served by some top rate professionals who went out of their way to make the evening enjoyable for our party and the tables that he/she also worked in the parties section. In this respect I had NO problem paying the auto gratuity I've also slipped extra money ($40+) into the main servers hands as well. It is a tough position for them to be in, between the manager(s) and the customers, and we all know pleasing EVERYONE is just not possible. :standing ovation: to those who take pride in their work. Thank you!
The person that made up the saying that "all publicity is good publicity" wasn't talking about the restaurant business. I'm gonna remember the name of this joint...and not in a good way. I'm no cheap tipper, but I like to have the option of sticking to 15% if the service was unsatisfactory. Actually, if i'm not impressed with the drinks and the appetizer, I'm out the door.
The dictionary definition of Gratuity; "(Noun) A gift, usually of money, given in return for services rendered." Gifts are provided without obligation. In the context of a restaurant, a Gratuity is usually provided to the serving staff as a reward for service. Better service=greater reward. No or popor service = no gratuity. A "Mandatory gift" is an oxymoron. If it's mandatory, it's not a gift. If it's a gift, it can't be mandatory. Any restaurant that charges a mandatory gratuity is guilty of 'bait and switch' in that they advertise one price and bill another. Call it what it is; a service charge, even when the service is poor!
Auto gratuities are a contract for service. If service is insufficient, the restaurant should bow down, as the contract was broken on their part.
By confronting, imprisoning, and threatening they just earned a lawsuit.
I haven't read all of the comments, but I have not yet seen where someone pointed out the greatest failing of the restaurant - when the patrons asked to talk to a manager, no one came to talk to them.
That combined with unlawful imprisonment by detaining the party behind locked doors should have at least resulted in some sort of refund and a hefty apology.
I worked for over a decade as a fine dining waiter and I understand the dependency of wait staff on tips, I also understand that there are reasons you would have an automatic gratuity, but I can't fathom why you would not provide good service or how you could justify not having management available to hear the customer's complaint.
there are laws against forcible confinement and extortion. Charge the restaurant owner for this criminal act.
make the restaurant pay their staff a fair wage, and the tip is optional, a way for the patron to express gratitude for good service.
I'm sorry, but I have to just put tightwad people in their place. With bad service being the exception, if you can't afford to tip your server (especially for good service), then DO NOT GO OUT TO EAT, period. More often than not, servers are given the short end of the stick with $1 and $2 tips for parties of 20 people, and it's these despicable excuses for human beings who usually run the server's butt off for extra napkins and everything under the sun, let alone lemons and sugar (because they're too cheap to order a drink). These automatic gratuity policies would not exist if it weren't for stingy, ungrateful people who are always looking to get something for nothing.
I have read through most of the posts for this topic and it appears that everyone has very specific thoughts one way or the other about tipping.
My question to all servers is this: What is your job that you get paid for by the company for whom you work? If it's to take orders and deliver food to customers then you are already being paid for that by your employer, regardless of how much that is. You agreed that you would accept those wages for that specific job. Any tip that you may get from a customer is a gift that is given by someone who quite likely believes you have done something over and above what your job calls for you to do.
I don't know about everyone else, but I don't tip employees in the clothing store (as an example) who do so much more than their job in finding just what I'm looking for. I purchase the garment and understand that they may or may not receive a commission from their employer for their service. Wouldn't it be sensible to suggest that restaurants do the same thing? Charge me more for the meal and reward employees that produce sales. Don't make me the "bad guy" about the amount of a tip (gift) that I choose to leave, if any. Since when did a tip become a "given" as part of the cost of my meal? If that were true, it would automatically be added to every check, regardless of the size of the party and not left to an individual's discretion.
Do not mistake the right of a customer to determine if they choose to give you a gift as someone who's a "cheapskate" or not. It quite likely has nothing to do with whether or not someone can afford to eat out. They are simply free to evaluate your service and choose what they do with their money. You just don't like it.
You certainly have the right not to leave a tip. However, the cultural norm in our country is to do so for services rendered at a restaurant. Its simple social ettiquite. Failing to do so makes you look like an ass. If people cannot afford a proper gratuity (15-20%), or feel that is an excessive amount, stay home.
And a waiter's wages are usually artificially low because the expected take of gratuity is factored in. Keep that in mind the next time you eat out somewhere.
Please don't breed....cheapskate.
well first of all...they accept a job that pays about half or less of the min.wage...the IRS taxes them as if they make 15% on EVERY TABLE...so if they are tipped less than that 15% they are liable for the taxes on the full 15% the IRS says they make!! you have no idea how it works...it seems you dont care either...it cannot be compared to a retail worker my friend!! Most servers do work hard and i have tipped up to 50% on some meals where i run them ragged and they have given me great service...Jsut sayin!!!
I have a right not to pay a tip for bad service but I never leave nothing. There were 2 or 3 occasions where I did leave only a penny just to show the waiter/waitress that I was displeased and did not forget.
On 1 of those occasions the waitress took my order and then disappeared. I had to go up to the counter and get my own food that was getting cold under the lights and refill my own drink. The waitress did finally reappear 45 minutes later explaining that she had to go out to eat with her boyfriend.
Another time I walked out of a restaurant without even paying the bill over 20 years ago. The waiter in that case took my order for my drinks and food. After not receiving either my drink or food for an hour, I just left and have never returned to any restaurants in that chain. I felt that I should not have to pay for food that I never received.
BTW .... My normal tip is $2 for every $10 or 20% adjusted up or down by the level of service. If I am at a table longer than normal for my reasons that amount normally gets an upward adjustment. If a restaurant includes the tip in the bill I just pay that amount which is probably less than I would have left if they let me decide the amount of the tip.
If a tip is forced, I won't tip more than what is forced, often losing you money as I tend to go 20% when I'm completely happy. Most places tend to force 16 to 18%.
That being said, if you force a tip, I expect beyond excellent service. If I don't get that, I will most certainly be having a talk with management to get the tip lowered or removed to a value I feel is appropriate. It doesn’t take much to get me to my 20% level. Keep my drinks filled, be prompt and courteous. Smile and pretend you care even if you don’t. I’ve thankfully only had one dinner service where I left a penny on a napkin with the word “Tip” on it just to make sure the waiter knew what I thought of their service.
I work as a server part-time (and I work pretty hard at it, I might add). If you can't afford to tip your server, then don't go out to eat, period. It is more common than not for large parties to cheat their server out of a decent gratuity, especially one that they worked for. Bad service is one reason to NOT tip, that part I get. But don't be a complete jerk by not respecting an establishment's policies; they may appear ridiculous to John Q. Public, but you have cheapskates to thank as to why these policies exist in the first place.
TIPS = TO INSURE PROMPT SERVICE. They are not another 'entitlement' program. If you received bad service, the restaurant should be willing to negotiate on the tip.
"If you can't afford to tip your server, then don't go out to eat, period."
Preach so hard on this, Please. I used to be a server myself. Once, a large party (12-15 ppl) came in just before we closed. The place I worked at had an auto-grat of 18% on large parties (8+) - only added with manager authorization. When the guy got his bill he said, "Eighteen percent?? That's more than I give God!". He complained to the manager (who had put the autograt on) and got the whole tip removed and I got no tip from those rude people who ran me ragged well past closing time. I ended up having to pay because their large group increased my total sales for the night, the total of which decided how much i had to tip out bussers and bartenders.
Don't bring a bunch of people to a sit-down restaurant and ask for stuff constantly and then act surprised when you get a bill or have to tip. You don't work for free, why would you expect servers to?
Anybody bothered to look up where the term "tip" comes from, yet" "t is from "To Insure Promptness". The whole idea is incentive to perform well, not fund the base pay. The system is broken when that base pay is so low that mandatory tips are required to adequately compensate the staff. Auto-tip is just another trick to boost the profits of the restaurant without the menu price looking too high. I question the whole false imprisonment thing. I actually served on a jury a few years back here in Houston where a black family took a local restaurant to court on a similar complaint. They lost due to lack of credible evidence. So I am not giving the complainant a freebie on that.
It does not come from "to insure promptness." You'd know that if you'd bothered to look it up in the Oxford English Dictionary.
My argument with this practice is that a mandatory fee no longer falls within the definition of a gratuity.
So what do you thin TIP stands for then? I've always understood it stand for To Insure Promptness. And that is what determines the percentage I tip - friendliness and promptness.
Tip does not mean "To Insure Promptness." If you had even the most basic grasp of the English language, you'd realize that. If it meant "to INSURE promptness," you'd pay it at the beginning of the meal; it would be an INSURANCE policy on prompt service, and if you didn't receive prompt service, you would be paid a sum for damages.
Insure: (Verb)
1. Arrange for compensation in the event of damage to or loss of (property), or injury to or the death of (someone), in exchange for...: "the car is insured for loss or damage"
2. Provide insurance coverage.
Ensure: (Verb)
1. Make certain that (something) shall occur or be the case.
2. Make certain of obtaining or providing (something).
Tip:
1. (Noun) A sum of money given to someone as a way of rewarding them for their services.
2. (Verb) Give (someone) a sum of money as a way of rewarding them for their services.
Absolutely brilliant. Well said. :)
Boo-ya!
When TIP was originally used in England during the 17th century a person would enter a inn or pub and put coins in a box by the door. The more coins, the louder the noise they made, the better service you received. The english language has evolved since then and we now have two words where there used to be only one. Unfortunately the use of tip has also evolved and it is considered a requirement no matter how bad (or good) the service is to give 20%. This means there is no incentive on the part of the waitstaff to give good service.
If you are charged an automatic gratuity make sure the percentage is BEFORE taxes! You don't want to tip 17% on top of the 11% tax they are charging you! Watch closely.
How cheap are you that you're so concerned about what amounts to 1.87%?
perfect reply matt. These are the type of people servers dread seeing sit down at their table. Most servers remember faces (especially of bad tippers) and one bad tip on decent service will lead to poor service in the future. Everyone should remember the number one rule: never be rude to people who handle your food....even in fine dining
Really? Really? "Leave me money or I'll poison your food?"
It's no wonder quality has declined.
We recently went to a buffet brunch at a halfway decent restaurant and were surprised by a 17% mandatory gratuity. We paid it but were a little surprised about that for a buffet and a party of four. I worked in the service industry for awhile and always tip well, but this seemed a bit excessive.
What would be better is paying the service staff a livable wage, not forcing them to rely on 'tips' all the time. I moved to Australia 12 yrs ago, and no tipping here, but all service staff get good wages. If the minimum wage in the US had kept up with cost of living, wait staff would be earning over $15 an hour. And don't believe if it goes that high that it will put places out of business. That argument was used before each and every minimum wage hike, and if anything every business saw a huge increase in business.
Amen. You can't imagine how many servers end up owing money (yes!) to their employers because the taxes taken out of their salary exceed the amount of their paychecks. The US is so backasswards with the whole wage thing for servers.
I do agree that the standard argument does not hold water. For restaurants in particular, some of your best patrons are either current or former waiters – you know they have developed an appreciation for dining out.
Henry Ford decided to pay his workers on the first auto assembly line better than he needed to (there was a severe scarcity of jobs at the time) because he knew if he paid them enough they would also be his customers – and he was right.
Everything depends on the service. If I go to a restaurant that has auto-gratuity I'd pay that and more if the server was awesome. If the service sucked, well what can you do? I would just pay it and not go back. Auto-gratuity should be set at 15%. I don't have money to throw around, but I'm usually a good tipper. I double the tax which is 17.5% and add change to make the payment even for ok service. If it was some stellar service I'll usually pay 20-25%
I am okay with auto-grats, but I really think that the standard should be for 8 or more guests, not 6 or more. A lot of families are 6 people, for crying out loud! When I was a server, if I had a party of 6 that was obviously just one family, I wouldn't bother with auto-gratuity, because a family eating out isn't the same as a "large party." A large party generally stays a while longer than just dinner, orders multiple appetizers and desserts, and often splits up the tab 2 or 3 or more ways.
In any case, I think it's important for people to realize that once parties hit the 10 person mark, a lot of restaurants will assign two servers to the table, and the "primary" server's other tables may be given away. So when the party tips 18%, each server actually gets 9%. I think customers would do well to inquire ahead of time if they are unsure whether gratuity will automatically be added (really, the server should inform them of this at the very beginning of the meal – I always did, and it always seemed to go over very well). There's really no reason to hate it, unless you actually receive poor service, and if your service is really that bad, you should inform a manager BEFORE the end of the meal! Request a different server, request the auto gratuity be removed, request a correction to whatever problem you're having...whatever you need to do. There's no reason you should suffer in silence until the very end of the meal; you deserve to enjoy your dining experience, and the server deserves to know how you're feeling about the service.
My issue with this practice is that restaurants seem to be making the groups smaller and smaller. I don't think a party of 5 should have an auto-tip. A party of 8 or more seems more like a reasonable number.
I don't have a problem with the practice of charging for groups. However, the service should be exemplary. And the idea of locking patrons in the restaurant is abhorrent. It sounds like false imprisonment to me. How dare they? This looks like a lawsuit waiting to happen.
Who is flagging these comments? Amerikkka is out in full force up in here. Shame on CNN